My personal view of how I use FC; I don't see FC as a place to put my best works, the most perfected few images I want people to see. It's a learning, exploring, changing experience for me. It's a place where I exchange ideas and get inspiration.
VLAD;
Quote
"The pic should be extremely outstanding to motivate me to write comments."
Just wanted to use your comment as a point, hope you don't mind. As to the beginning subject of this conversation - exactly what clicks are for, so that you can see your pictures are getting attention, nothing more. Comments - everyone has a different style on how they choose to leave comments. (I like your comments Vlad!)I'm of the opposite end, I rarely leave comments under photos that I think are astonishingly perfect or if the photographer has an impecible portfolio, might leave a comment about how much I enjoyed viewing them in the profile though. I usually engage a photographer by QM or FM if I have a comment about how they might improve. That's my style. I don't like to taint the next viewer as to how I see something. If something goes to the gallery I will more openly comment.
DANNY;
First, love your work, been watching.
Quote
"If that means taking the bad with the good, so be it. Afterall, if I don't like what someone says, at the end of the day, I don't have to listen :)"
You don't know how much I agree with what you said. Unfortunately, I think I have a few people that get really jacked about what I have to say and carry it on.
Paul;
"I do think that there are two camps forming ... 'artists who use cameras' and 'photographers'. I always insisted that as a 'photographer' I am also an artist but it does seem that a 'photographer' uses skill, judgment, artistic sight, patience etc etc to produce an image that is inspiring and of value whereas an 'artist' needs to look into themselves, into others or around them and become inspired to represent what they see or feel in whatever way they see fit ... in the latter there is no room for critique because there is no right or wrong, it all comes from within and how can that be wrong."
Thanks for considering the different places people are coming from. I don't think anyone is attempting to stifle you from commenting, just asking to temper your comments with an understanding that even if you have an opinion that the person isn't obligated to have the same view.
RUUD.
I just don't think your getting it, what all the tussle is about. If you don't appreciate a certain style of photography so be it. If you have a beef with "so called artists - and I know I'm one of the top ones you have an issue with - what is the need to belittle or be condescending to them? How does it impact you, why does it affect you so much to have these "so called artists" with "bad pictures" sharing the same site with your pictures? Why do you have such disdain for people that take pictures from a personal perspective?
Just some thoughts to share with you on your previous comments regarding art. I know your fed up with my words, so I'll used the words of others....
"Art is above all a means of expression..."
- Paul Gauguin
The solitary visionaries are despised or regarded as abnormal and eccentric.
- Wassily Kandinsky
Concerning the Spiritual in Art
Dover Publications (reprint of the first English translation of 1914), 1977.
These drawings seem to me to sum up observations that I have been making for many years on the characteristics of a drawing, characteristics that do not depend on the exact copying of natural forms, nor on the patient assembling of exact details, but on the profound feeling of the artist before the objects which he has chosen, on which his attention is focused, and the spirit of which he has penetrated.
- Henri Matisse
Exactitude is Not Truth, 1947
_________________
I would like to propose a new term for this photography. The term is "photo-expressionism. " By this I mean photographic imagery that is both personal and expressive, photography that is as artistic as the paintings of Vincent van Gogh, Edvard Munch (The Scream), or Jackson Pollock.
-Richard deGaris Doble
Is Digital Photography the New Expressive Visual Art?, 1999
Once you make your art public, remember to please yourself and not your critics, because trying to please a critic will be a loosing game. If your art is based on past techniques they may say you are too traditional. If it is innovative, they may say it is not really art. If you make it accessible and easy to understand, they may say it is not deep enough. If your art refers to another artist's work, they may say it is too obscure. At the same time you will hear critics state that what they would really like to see is an innovative art that understands the tradition of art, that is accessible to all viewers but is not afraid to have a deeper layer of meaning.
-Richard deGaris Doble
Why create art? 1998
Always remember that the art you are creating is for you and you alone. The more you do it the better you will get. Ignore people who want you to do it perfectly. Art is never perfect and new art is a groping process. You will be your own harshest critic. You will know when you have created a really good work and when you have created something ordinary.
-Richard deGaris Doble
Why create art? 1998
Think you should tell Rick Doble Professional photographer, Marquis Who's Who in America, teacher, author, playwright, photography reviewer, exhibiting photographer - because he's got a lot of what you would consider REALLY BAD pictures hanging in museums. http://www.rickdoble.net/
_______________________
Isn't there any room in your thought for people that follow this line of philosophy in your mind? Instead of all this mud slinging and insinuation why don't we start a new thread and have a real conversation about it.
VLAD;
Quote
"The pic should be extremely outstanding to motivate me to write comments."
Just wanted to use your comment as a point, hope you don't mind. As to the beginning subject of this conversation - exactly what clicks are for, so that you can see your pictures are getting attention, nothing more. Comments - everyone has a different style on how they choose to leave comments. (I like your comments Vlad!)I'm of the opposite end, I rarely leave comments under photos that I think are astonishingly perfect or if the photographer has an impecible portfolio, might leave a comment about how much I enjoyed viewing them in the profile though. I usually engage a photographer by QM or FM if I have a comment about how they might improve. That's my style. I don't like to taint the next viewer as to how I see something. If something goes to the gallery I will more openly comment.
DANNY;
First, love your work, been watching.
Quote
"If that means taking the bad with the good, so be it. Afterall, if I don't like what someone says, at the end of the day, I don't have to listen :)"
You don't know how much I agree with what you said. Unfortunately, I think I have a few people that get really jacked about what I have to say and carry it on.
Paul;
"I do think that there are two camps forming ... 'artists who use cameras' and 'photographers'. I always insisted that as a 'photographer' I am also an artist but it does seem that a 'photographer' uses skill, judgment, artistic sight, patience etc etc to produce an image that is inspiring and of value whereas an 'artist' needs to look into themselves, into others or around them and become inspired to represent what they see or feel in whatever way they see fit ... in the latter there is no room for critique because there is no right or wrong, it all comes from within and how can that be wrong."
Thanks for considering the different places people are coming from. I don't think anyone is attempting to stifle you from commenting, just asking to temper your comments with an understanding that even if you have an opinion that the person isn't obligated to have the same view.
RUUD.
I just don't think your getting it, what all the tussle is about. If you don't appreciate a certain style of photography so be it. If you have a beef with "so called artists - and I know I'm one of the top ones you have an issue with - what is the need to belittle or be condescending to them? How does it impact you, why does it affect you so much to have these "so called artists" with "bad pictures" sharing the same site with your pictures? Why do you have such disdain for people that take pictures from a personal perspective?
Just some thoughts to share with you on your previous comments regarding art. I know your fed up with my words, so I'll used the words of others....
"Art is above all a means of expression..."
- Paul Gauguin
The solitary visionaries are despised or regarded as abnormal and eccentric.
- Wassily Kandinsky
Concerning the Spiritual in Art
Dover Publications (reprint of the first English translation of 1914), 1977.
These drawings seem to me to sum up observations that I have been making for many years on the characteristics of a drawing, characteristics that do not depend on the exact copying of natural forms, nor on the patient assembling of exact details, but on the profound feeling of the artist before the objects which he has chosen, on which his attention is focused, and the spirit of which he has penetrated.
- Henri Matisse
Exactitude is Not Truth, 1947
_________________
I would like to propose a new term for this photography. The term is "photo-expressionism. " By this I mean photographic imagery that is both personal and expressive, photography that is as artistic as the paintings of Vincent van Gogh, Edvard Munch (The Scream), or Jackson Pollock.
-Richard deGaris Doble
Is Digital Photography the New Expressive Visual Art?, 1999
Once you make your art public, remember to please yourself and not your critics, because trying to please a critic will be a loosing game. If your art is based on past techniques they may say you are too traditional. If it is innovative, they may say it is not really art. If you make it accessible and easy to understand, they may say it is not deep enough. If your art refers to another artist's work, they may say it is too obscure. At the same time you will hear critics state that what they would really like to see is an innovative art that understands the tradition of art, that is accessible to all viewers but is not afraid to have a deeper layer of meaning.
-Richard deGaris Doble
Why create art? 1998
Always remember that the art you are creating is for you and you alone. The more you do it the better you will get. Ignore people who want you to do it perfectly. Art is never perfect and new art is a groping process. You will be your own harshest critic. You will know when you have created a really good work and when you have created something ordinary.
-Richard deGaris Doble
Why create art? 1998
Think you should tell Rick Doble Professional photographer, Marquis Who's Who in America, teacher, author, playwright, photography reviewer, exhibiting photographer - because he's got a lot of what you would consider REALLY BAD pictures hanging in museums. http://www.rickdoble.net/
_______________________
Isn't there any room in your thought for people that follow this line of philosophy in your mind? Instead of all this mud slinging and insinuation why don't we start a new thread and have a real conversation about it.
I'm glad you're so happy with yourselve 8-))
15.09.05, 13:18
Post 18 of 28
Looked at Richard Doble's site ... would prefer to see just his images rather than a self-appointed shrine - referring to his reviews and accomplishments etc etc ... what about his expression .. it is lost in the sea of self-promotion ... very poor site in all honesty .. I would rather an artist just show his work and let us decide what we think ... simple as that ... and, Wendy, you have told us many times about your award-winning, highly-paid pro-photographic experience ... to be honest Wendy (and I am sure you will be pleased by this) I will be happy to judge you on your work alone ... the past is meaningless to me ... nice abstract by the way :0) Regards, Paul.
Post Edited (13:58h)
Post Edited (13:58h)
I'm new on this site too. And I've come here to have development. And ... I really want constructive criticism, it is a steps of a creative ladder
Give me this please... be not greedy :0)
Give me this please... be not greedy :0)
Exactly, Alex. I really could care less if someone thinks my work is crap. It wouldn't bother me. I just want to be a better photographer. I won a camera in a photo contest around a year ago, but other than that, I've yet to make a dime selling any of my pictures. I know there are people here whose income is entirely from photography, and I know my photos can't compete with theirs. I'm not trying to.
I would love to hear any comments about my pictures, even the bad ones, because that, I believe, is how I'll grow as a photographer.
Brad Waldera
I would love to hear any comments about my pictures, even the bad ones, because that, I believe, is how I'll grow as a photographer.
Brad Waldera
yea Brad... I see the same
Thanks Paul, it's appreciated. Which abstract are you talking about?
[fc-foto:3905249]
If you noticed Red Cylinders has a dedication to you - after all you da' man when it comes to clouds and shadows. Like your Humber Bridge pictures the best.
[fc-foto:3139594]
[fc-foto:3847124]
Have to agree with you on the "shrine" comment on Doble's site. It's a bit messy, hard to navigate and too many pop ups for me. He does have a regular gallery as well. I don't agree with all of his imagry, but I really mirror what he says in his essays. Did you at least find them interesting?
Oh - and vinegar and oil can compliment each other and coexist on the same salad if you shake them up enough. Are we shaken enough yet? LoL ; )
Post Edited (17:04h)
[fc-foto:3905249]
If you noticed Red Cylinders has a dedication to you - after all you da' man when it comes to clouds and shadows. Like your Humber Bridge pictures the best.
[fc-foto:3139594]
[fc-foto:3847124]
Have to agree with you on the "shrine" comment on Doble's site. It's a bit messy, hard to navigate and too many pop ups for me. He does have a regular gallery as well. I don't agree with all of his imagry, but I really mirror what he says in his essays. Did you at least find them interesting?
Oh - and vinegar and oil can compliment each other and coexist on the same salad if you shake them up enough. Are we shaken enough yet? LoL ; )
Post Edited (17:04h)
15.09.05, 17:13
Post 23 of 28
Hi Wen - yes I think we are shaken up well and truely ... On RD's site ... I haven't read much - just flicked through because there is so much ... I have bookmarked it so I can go back and spend some time there ... although you may think I have a closed-mind to some forms of art (which is partially true) I am still interested in reading about it because part of me says I see no value in it and part of me says that I see no value because I am not looking ... Actually, there must be value in it, at the very least to the person who created it of course - but you know what I mean .... and I hate salad dressing as well :0( yeuuchh !!!
Oh yes - the abstract was the one you mentioned, that was dedicated ... yes ... nice one ...
P.S. I bet I am the vinegar ...
P.P.S. I went to see an exhibition by Victor Pasmore a couple of weeks ago - very contemporary ... trying to expand my mind ...
Oh yes - the abstract was the one you mentioned, that was dedicated ... yes ... nice one ...
P.S. I bet I am the vinegar ...
P.P.S. I went to see an exhibition by Victor Pasmore a couple of weeks ago - very contemporary ... trying to expand my mind ...
@ Brad
@ Alex
First I'd like to welcome you to the FC! If I can be of any assistance to you just ask.
@ Wen
Thanks for your comment about my work.
@ Alex
First I'd like to welcome you to the FC! If I can be of any assistance to you just ask.
@ Wen
Thanks for your comment about my work.
I'd like to say a big SORRY, to all who have been engaging in this thread, for starting it and then dissappearing for a few days. My reason being my grandmother past away and I've been tending to other business. I do see that everyone is still very passionate about this subject.
Hey, Danny!
I did. I'm not stingy :0)
I did. I'm not stingy :0)
Pasmore Paul? That's jumping in with both feet. I would think he would be more of an influence to the English. That's one artist that isn't quite my thing, maybe a few of his paintings. I'd go to an exhibit just to see first hand. I had an art teacher that was big into his bits of painted scrap, made us do a Pasmore style sculpture for finals. All of my mentors were American and German. I'm more into Fauvism, Bahaus, Impressionists, Dada, Art Deco - but I like the history of art in general.
I don't think your closed minded - just haven't had that "BANG" that hits you when you "get it". I haven't given up on you Paul. It comes in an epiphany and washes over you. I had teachers that I thought were right out of their gourds, and then years later I had to look them up to say "thanks for exposing me to that, didn't get it at the time, but I do now." I think Pat summed it up beautifully in this picture.
[fc-foto:3704137]
I wish she would change the title back, originally it was called Curiosity Enlightened the Cat. I got the message right away because I've been there. Your still on the 2nd cell of the cartoon - bewildered, but curious as to what it's about. What you have to do is climb into modern art to experience it. Right now it's all chaos to you, and that is where you are having the problem - you want to organize it, want it to be technical and controlled. That's comfortable, to know what to expect. Modern art and expressionism isn't comfortable. When it spits you back out you understand that modern art is what you make it, you can see it however you want, you can rearrange it. Here is something for you to try, find out what your personality type is - It really helps to understand how you see things, how you approach things http://www.personalitypathways.com/type_inventory.html
As for the abstract - a more traditional, follow the rules shot. Falko insisted I make it public for comment. That is very much my old style, this is a shot that I would have done years ago I want to get away from it.
[fc-foto:3378513]
I figured I'd throw a few more traditional things out before I started putting up my photoimpressionist light paintings although they are - true photographs edited with traditional photographic techniques a lot of people think they are paintings or drawings.
[fc-foto:3927520]
[fc-foto:3929323]
[fc-foto:3941814]
[fc-foto:3943101]
My photoimpressionist paintings differ greatly from Rick Doble's, but they share the same vision. I would say Pale Series runs more along Rick's philosophy - and Pale Series is intentionally made bad.
If you want to be vinegar that's fine by me, I'm tired of being acidic. But when everything settles oil always ends up on top. Do you prefer top or bottom Paul?
Post Edited (7:33h)
I don't think your closed minded - just haven't had that "BANG" that hits you when you "get it". I haven't given up on you Paul. It comes in an epiphany and washes over you. I had teachers that I thought were right out of their gourds, and then years later I had to look them up to say "thanks for exposing me to that, didn't get it at the time, but I do now." I think Pat summed it up beautifully in this picture.
[fc-foto:3704137]
I wish she would change the title back, originally it was called Curiosity Enlightened the Cat. I got the message right away because I've been there. Your still on the 2nd cell of the cartoon - bewildered, but curious as to what it's about. What you have to do is climb into modern art to experience it. Right now it's all chaos to you, and that is where you are having the problem - you want to organize it, want it to be technical and controlled. That's comfortable, to know what to expect. Modern art and expressionism isn't comfortable. When it spits you back out you understand that modern art is what you make it, you can see it however you want, you can rearrange it. Here is something for you to try, find out what your personality type is - It really helps to understand how you see things, how you approach things http://www.personalitypathways.com/type_inventory.html
As for the abstract - a more traditional, follow the rules shot. Falko insisted I make it public for comment. That is very much my old style, this is a shot that I would have done years ago I want to get away from it.
[fc-foto:3378513]
I figured I'd throw a few more traditional things out before I started putting up my photoimpressionist light paintings although they are - true photographs edited with traditional photographic techniques a lot of people think they are paintings or drawings.
[fc-foto:3927520]
[fc-foto:3929323]
[fc-foto:3941814]
[fc-foto:3943101]
My photoimpressionist paintings differ greatly from Rick Doble's, but they share the same vision. I would say Pale Series runs more along Rick's philosophy - and Pale Series is intentionally made bad.
If you want to be vinegar that's fine by me, I'm tired of being acidic. But when everything settles oil always ends up on top. Do you prefer top or bottom Paul?
Post Edited (7:33h)
As a new user i agree with Alex and brad, i am here because none of my friends are really interested in photography and asking then if one of my pictures is any up to standard is a real waste of time as they will always say it is good even if im having doubts about it myself.
Im really looking foward to reading comments of constructive and critical nature aswell as getting a little attention as i really want to be able to get the best results possible with my camera!
(even if my only 3 comments are in German which i cant understand they are appriciated)
As for more clicks than comments as a new user and a new photographer i would feel a little uneasy about being critical of people who have been taking pictures since before i was born as their experiance and knowledge is far superior to mine and i feel i would have little to offer other than to say 'nice pic'.
Im really looking foward to reading comments of constructive and critical nature aswell as getting a little attention as i really want to be able to get the best results possible with my camera!
(even if my only 3 comments are in German which i cant understand they are appriciated)
As for more clicks than comments as a new user and a new photographer i would feel a little uneasy about being critical of people who have been taking pictures since before i was born as their experiance and knowledge is far superior to mine and i feel i would have little to offer other than to say 'nice pic'.