It seems to me that here on the .com side people aren't as likely to comment as on the .de side. I see that numerous individuals view my work but very few comment. Is this true to all members or just me. I appreciate the comments of those that have left them, both the good and the bad.
If I may make a suggestion to all, make comments, that's what this site is all about. Right?
If I may make a suggestion to all, make comments, that's what this site is all about. Right?
Hi, Danny!
This is true to all members here. Shame on me, but I am lazy, too, to write comments. The pic should be extremely outstanding to motivate me to write comments. As to me, the clicks mean for me just the same, I see that my works are noticed.
Do not fix on it. 8-))
This is true to all members here. Shame on me, but I am lazy, too, to write comments. The pic should be extremely outstanding to motivate me to write comments. As to me, the clicks mean for me just the same, I see that my works are noticed.
Do not fix on it. 8-))
Hi Danny,
The problem you came across is actually one which is seen at many photographic site everywhere, there's lots of people uploading but the number actually taking the trouble to write comments, and then especially the kind of comments one can learn from is quite small.
Difference with the .de site is that there are far more users there, but they have been on line longer then the .com site.
I have noticed that many of your pictures did get comments and the only way to improve that is also being active yourself. Very often you will see that after leaving comments at peoples pictures, they will also take the trouble to look at your work and maybe comment.
Like many other things also here goes, to get something out you'll have to put in a lot.
The problem you came across is actually one which is seen at many photographic site everywhere, there's lots of people uploading but the number actually taking the trouble to write comments, and then especially the kind of comments one can learn from is quite small.
Difference with the .de site is that there are far more users there, but they have been on line longer then the .com site.
I have noticed that many of your pictures did get comments and the only way to improve that is also being active yourself. Very often you will see that after leaving comments at peoples pictures, they will also take the trouble to look at your work and maybe comment.
Like many other things also here goes, to get something out you'll have to put in a lot.
05.09.05, 13:31
Post 4 of 28
Hi Danny .. there is one other big problem that results in a lack of comments ... there are some people who rightly or wrongly do not appreciate criticism of images (on their images or anyone else's) and would always prefer to see positive encouragement. Therefore I personally feel unable to join in the commenting because I do not wish to upset the more timid uploaders on here. Not knowing many of the members personally means I am unable to assess your willingness to attract constructive criticism and so unless someone actually asks for critique I will not give it. You may think that by the mere fact that any critique left is polite and constructive it will be enough to make the critique acceptable but, as polite as I feel I always am, some people actually have very different ideas on politeness and indeed seem to feel that any focus on an image's faults is harsh whether backed up by ways to improve it or not and that such critique is therefore negative and unnacceptable. Also it has been suggested to me that commenting on such things as crooked horizons, out of focus images, images with little content etc may be out of order as this type of offering can be viewed and applauded by some as 'artistic' and that it is a concentration of the artistic mind on emotion and spontanaity rather than technical excellence. It has also been suggested to me that any such concentration on technical skills actually restricts the artistic flow of the photographer and their artistic development and so I am at a loss as to what a 'flaw' or 'fault' is anymore ... one person's crooked horizon resulting as an error by them is another person's artistic statement. I hope you follow what I am saying because, although you may think I have taken leave of my senses, I am serious. It is not something I prescribe to but more a situation I feel forced to adopt through pressure from others. They may be right and they may be wrong - it isn't really for me to say because I don't know what art is at the end of the day. I do think that there are two camps forming ... 'artists who use cameras' and 'photographers'. I always insisted that as a 'photographer' I am also an artist but it does seem that a 'photographer' uses skill, judgement, artistic sight, patience etc etc to produce an image that is inspiring and of value whereas an 'artist' needs to look into themselves, into others or around them and become inspired to represent what they see or feel in whatever way they see fit ... in the latter there is no room for critique because there is no right or wrong, it all comes from within and how can that be wrong.
Post Edited (13:40h)
Post Edited (13:40h)
Well, maybe web masters could include the option when uploading a picture, like: "The author would like to receive proper criticism", "the author would like to have no comments", "the author would like to have positive comments only" etc.???
05.09.05, 19:07
Post 6 of 28
Hi VD - actually the validity of indicating an uploader's comment requirements has been discussed ... I think an option to prevent comments completely seems quite reasonable but may impact on the site if too many people take this option. It is something worth considering because of the things I mentioned above as I don't know of anybody, certainly including myself, who wishes to upset or put anybody off uploading.
Let me first explain that I have considered myself a photographer for many, many years. However, I have only recently began to delve into making this a business for myself. I went in search of a forum such as this so that I could interact with and receive wisdom from my fellow photographers in order to improve my work. I have not been posting my photos on this site simply to show off, or have someone pat me on the back, especially if it is undeserved. I have enough family and friends who can praise my work (whether truthful or not) simply to make me feel better. While I do appreciate the positive feedback from members of this site, I won't have my tender sensibilities wounded if someone honestly critizes my photos, whether it be because of personal taste and what I do just doesn't appeal to them, or it be because there is some technical fault in my photograph(s) that could be improved upon.
Again, I joined this site so that I could learn from others. I don't want people to be afraid to be honest when critiquing my photos. I thought that was part of the point. In addition, I do feel that I have been a contributor. According to the website's own tracking system, I have left 284 comments for others in the 2 months I have been a member. And no, not all of my comments were meaningless praise and adoration. I have tried to be honest with others and I would appreciate the same. I am here to learn; to better my craft. If that means taking the bad with the good, so be it. Afterall, if I don't like what someone says, at the end of the day, I don't have to listen :)
Post Edited (21:56h)
Again, I joined this site so that I could learn from others. I don't want people to be afraid to be honest when critiquing my photos. I thought that was part of the point. In addition, I do feel that I have been a contributor. According to the website's own tracking system, I have left 284 comments for others in the 2 months I have been a member. And no, not all of my comments were meaningless praise and adoration. I have tried to be honest with others and I would appreciate the same. I am here to learn; to better my craft. If that means taking the bad with the good, so be it. Afterall, if I don't like what someone says, at the end of the day, I don't have to listen :)
Post Edited (21:56h)
05.09.05, 22:20
Post 8 of 28
Hi Danny, although you have much more experience than me we seem to both have joined this site for the exact same reasons and with the same aims (to make this wonderful hobby also into a financially beneficial one). Hope you get a lot from this site. regards, Paul.
Everyone putting his/her photographs on this site knows that they are visible for everyone, except when they put them into their fotohome only.
By uploading them publically they agree to have and receive critics from other users, if they dont want that i would very honestly say they do not belong here. There are enough such sites where they can "park" their pictures for their family to be seen, that is not the idea of Fotocommunity. Somehow i believe that if there are discussions about photographs these should not be taken to any "backrooms" out of sight of other users, they should be discussed publically for everyone to learn from. I therefore do not react to people who send personal comments as a reaction to my critisism, They can either react publically or keep their reaction to themselves as far as i am concerned.
I sometimes get a littlebit tyred of certain people uploading bad pictures ( in my opinion ) and wave every critisism away with the remark that what they make is "art". I give myself the credit of having been around in photography long enough to be able to distinguish the difference between art and a failed photograph. I just won't have myself fooled by them so called "artists"!
Just as with photography also in art the intention is to be able to make a message. If no-one understands the message then to me the maker has failed, and no excuses will change that. I have seen a good deal of your photographs where the message came trough very well. On top of that they were technically very good. Just hold on to that !and buggers to the nitwits !
Post Edited (23:05h)
By uploading them publically they agree to have and receive critics from other users, if they dont want that i would very honestly say they do not belong here. There are enough such sites where they can "park" their pictures for their family to be seen, that is not the idea of Fotocommunity. Somehow i believe that if there are discussions about photographs these should not be taken to any "backrooms" out of sight of other users, they should be discussed publically for everyone to learn from. I therefore do not react to people who send personal comments as a reaction to my critisism, They can either react publically or keep their reaction to themselves as far as i am concerned.
I sometimes get a littlebit tyred of certain people uploading bad pictures ( in my opinion ) and wave every critisism away with the remark that what they make is "art". I give myself the credit of having been around in photography long enough to be able to distinguish the difference between art and a failed photograph. I just won't have myself fooled by them so called "artists"!
Just as with photography also in art the intention is to be able to make a message. If no-one understands the message then to me the maker has failed, and no excuses will change that. I have seen a good deal of your photographs where the message came trough very well. On top of that they were technically very good. Just hold on to that !and buggers to the nitwits !
Post Edited (23:05h)
05.09.05, 22:41
Post 10 of 28
Ruud's last comments are worth printing and framing.
05.09.05, 22:51
Post 11 of 28
Yes Ruud's comments are very correct - We agree that the comments should continue as always ... honest & constructive.
Post Edited (23:14h)
Post Edited (23:14h)
Wow, these comments have been mine since I joined this "family of photographers" at the end of July. I want constructive comments as that is why I joined, that is the only way I will learn. My site is active as I have lots of clicks, some comments, but when I have 234 clicks and 4 comments, 101, 135, no comments, 114 with 1 comment, the list goes on. People must be interested and I am glad, but too busy to bother making a comment.
I do comment on others photos, saying what is good, great, etc. and perhaps what I would change, or they many consider another POV. Some people have been appreciative, some make no comment at all, maybe they did not check to see if someone made a comment at all. Some, you could tell did not like the comment at all and were offended. But frankly that is why they uploaded the photo to begin with. I try to find and point out good things when I comment on potential changes to a photograph. If I can not say something good about a photo, I just move on and do not make any comments at all.
Kathleen
I do comment on others photos, saying what is good, great, etc. and perhaps what I would change, or they many consider another POV. Some people have been appreciative, some make no comment at all, maybe they did not check to see if someone made a comment at all. Some, you could tell did not like the comment at all and were offended. But frankly that is why they uploaded the photo to begin with. I try to find and point out good things when I comment on potential changes to a photograph. If I can not say something good about a photo, I just move on and do not make any comments at all.
Kathleen
WOW! I really didn't have a clue as to what I was stepping in when I started this thread. I've seen that there are a few other threads that are running this same course. I'm glad to see that so many people are so passionate about this subject.
I'm new on this site, and noticed that when viewing many of the photographs, the photographer didn't give any information about the photo. I saw at least one photo where the photographer asks the viewer not to comment.
The main reason I'm HERE is for the feedback from other photographers. When your friends and family have been your only critics, you're not as sure of yourself as you probably should be. I welcome any comments, good or bad, to my photos.
The first photo I placed on here received a comment about it the same day, and the person who made the comment actually pointed out how the photo could have been made even better by cropping it differently. He was right, and now I have an even better version of that photograph to admire.
That is exactly the reason that I am here. Period.
Brad Waldera
The main reason I'm HERE is for the feedback from other photographers. When your friends and family have been your only critics, you're not as sure of yourself as you probably should be. I welcome any comments, good or bad, to my photos.
The first photo I placed on here received a comment about it the same day, and the person who made the comment actually pointed out how the photo could have been made even better by cropping it differently. He was right, and now I have an even better version of that photograph to admire.
That is exactly the reason that I am here. Period.
Brad Waldera
Welcome Brad.
Just about everyone is here to learn from other people and get ideas. The scuffle over comments is more over positive critic rather than just leaving rude or sarcastic comments if you don't understand or don't like someone's work. It's more about differences of opinion as to what photography is. It's a large community with a very large spectrum of view, it's just that some members are very disrespectful of "the artists" that Ruud is referring to.
I happen to be from the circle of those "so called artists" with "failed bad pictures"- most of us also happen to have extensive backgrounds in the arts. I happen to have been an award winning "traditional" professional photographer by the age of 17 with an income beyond most degreed engineers. I fully appreciate it in others that are striving for that technical perfectionism, but personally I find photoexpressionism much more fullfilling. I have to really disagree with Ruud that an image has to say "something". The most popular works in museums came from the inner expression of the artist. It's just beyond me to comprehend why that is such a threat.
Again, most people here really appreciate a sincere objective view, but you will generally find a rude comment met back with hostility. If you find someone's photographs that you don't understand, ask them, you may get a very interesting answer that will expand your own knowledge.
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Just about everyone is here to learn from other people and get ideas. The scuffle over comments is more over positive critic rather than just leaving rude or sarcastic comments if you don't understand or don't like someone's work. It's more about differences of opinion as to what photography is. It's a large community with a very large spectrum of view, it's just that some members are very disrespectful of "the artists" that Ruud is referring to.
I happen to be from the circle of those "so called artists" with "failed bad pictures"- most of us also happen to have extensive backgrounds in the arts. I happen to have been an award winning "traditional" professional photographer by the age of 17 with an income beyond most degreed engineers. I fully appreciate it in others that are striving for that technical perfectionism, but personally I find photoexpressionism much more fullfilling. I have to really disagree with Ruud that an image has to say "something". The most popular works in museums came from the inner expression of the artist. It's just beyond me to comprehend why that is such a threat.
Again, most people here really appreciate a sincere objective view, but you will generally find a rude comment met back with hostility. If you find someone's photographs that you don't understand, ask them, you may get a very interesting answer that will expand your own knowledge.
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