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Elmar Weder, 18.04.2007 at 19:16h

interessant

LG Elmar

Voting Center, 27.04.2007 at 6:42h

This photo was proposed for the gallery, as the voting ended with 32 pro und 68 contra votes. Maybe next time you will be more successful;-)

Yasemin Carmen, 27.04.2007 at 6:42h

reason....
no wonder our perception of reason is distorted...

reason;
a perfect moment, perfect glance,
he cought a good glimpse...
also this impressing work is supported by the successful technique too

Roberto Grilli, 27.04.2007 at 6:42h

Good idea of the half face covered with other not sharp face. the eye and the forehead have good expression. but the boys unsharp face is too big and distructing, IMO
sorry
contra

Tom McAlexander , 27.04.2007 at 6:42h

I agree with Roberto. It almost hurts the eyes to look at it.
contra

Yasemin Carmen, 27.04.2007 at 6:42h

well, as is seen distorted, subjective critics.

i offer every people to look at a specific thing and try to figure out how the others in front of it or behind it takes place in the sight...
of course the focused one is sharp and the others r not.
moreover, reflecting this in photography successfully is an issue that refers talent.

maybe seeing nothing or seeing everything blurred can make your eyes feel better Tom McAlexander, because the one you claim that hurts ur eyes is just the one as it has to be, as all the people used to see using their eyes ....

ps.i really wonder, is there an omni-sharp-seeing being in the world?
or can people invent such a cam.?

i really feel myself bad reading these kinda ignorant comments.

Tom McAlexander , 27.04.2007 at 6:42h

Please don't get personal in your comments, Yasemin. Remember that we are simply giving our opinions and they are based on personal preferences, not ignorance. I like shallow dof as much as anyone, but the blurred image shouldn't be the "focus" (so to speak) of the picture as is the case in this one. IMHO this is just a poorly composed picture. Others may disagree, and that's why we are given three choices.

Theo Weijmer, 27.04.2007 at 6:42h

Looking at the picture I agree more with Tom than with Yasemin, I think it's a fair comment, but that doesn't mean it is a right vision, it's only the vision of the one who is commenting. At least it's a vision, nd not a blurred one, most of the times (I do it myself also) it's only ho and ah. For this one sorry but for me contra

Maguire , 27.04.2007 at 6:42h

I think this is a truely poetic work of art.. and I'm not given to lavishing out compliments like that... and can fully understand why Yasemin has nomintated it for voting. Apart from seeing what most of us don't see, just go and look at her own work if you don't believe me, she has a highly developed sense of what works and why it works. I love the balance in this photograph and although there is a large area of bokeh, it only serves to highten attention on the girls face. We can only wonder at her thoughts but what an intense look in her eye. Blacn and white is the ideal medium for it reduces the content to shape and form and not distorted by colour, though I suspect it still be a stunning image. To appreciate this one I think you have to think outside of the box. Its not standard everything-in-focus photography more an interpretation of a moment, a mood, a state of mind. Beautiful. PRO

Yasemin Carmen, 27.04.2007 at 6:42h

Thomas, i cannot take anything personal in the discussion of another photographer's picture...

Blurred image is not the focus, if it was the focus then it wouldn't be blurred, if it was blurred then the sharp image is the focused...

but i wont make it longer.

briefly,

can you show me a richly composed perspectively successful picture from your portfolio?
that is why we have portfolios, to reflect ourselves by our works too, besides the speeches....

Claude Coeudevez, 27.04.2007 at 6:42h

very good proposal Yasmin
Excellent work Ali
Pro

Tom McAlexander , 27.04.2007 at 6:42h

Yasemin. If you mean do I have anything in my portfolio that I deem worthy of Gallery, I have to say no. I don’t believe I would vote for any of my own works. I have never claimed to be a great photographer. However, under the rules of FC this does not disqualify me from voting or from expressing my opinion regarding Gallery proposals. I should be able to do this without anyone ridiculing my opinion, and if calling someone ignorant isn’t personal, then I’m not sure what is. There is a great difference between limited ability and ignorance. Incidentally, there are several in Ali’s portfolio that I would readily vote for, but this is not one of them. I am sure that there are many who disagree with me on this matter, and that is certainly their right. I could have pushed the contra button without comment, but I feel that is a rather cowardly thing to do.

Ali Erbas, 27.04.2007 at 6:42h

Dear all,

I really appreciate all kind comments to this photo. And thank you for taking the time to do so.

@Yasemin; thank you for kind proposal. The journey made was worth indeed:-))))

I feel like having a word to the comments above. But a little later if it is okay. Please feel free to drop any comment you like. They enrich the meaning of this work and I am grateful for that.
ali

Peter. Gau , 27.04.2007 at 6:42h

skip

Sarah D. Kiefer , 27.04.2007 at 6:42h

i appreciate the image, selective focus and moment. however, in this case the blur is too much for me and morphs into the other subject's face. if there were a bit more separation as with contrasts or tones, it would be an easy pro, but as it is, neither subject gets its due attention. tempted to skip altogether bc comments are disrupting the image, but it's the photo that deserves a vote and not a skip, so contra bc the blur could be executed more effectively, but thx for bringing this image bc now i'll go see more of ali's work.

Mark Johnston, 27.04.2007 at 6:42h

I love the capture of the glance and would give a pro vote for it if there was just something else that was blocking the way other than the other face. But as is I also find it disturbing the image and taking away from the great moment. Skip.

Celal Tayar, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

am i in the vc or in the memberstalk ?

;-))


+

When , 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Been a long time Ali my friend.

Yasemin Carmen, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

now i understand that how some friends of mine were right quiting the voting.

i m really sorry friends, for not joining into your friends' club in which you always propose one another's pictures and vote pro for yourselves.

also i m really sorry for seeing this photography site beeing away from its self-righteous mission for some time due to the new members who changed the air into "pyjama party" from a virtious air.

is the aim "satisfying self"? is the aim "agreeing with your friends, no matter what the case is" ?

or discussing something and developing cognitive photo eye without being stucked to the common prototypes?

and one more point:
let the people defend theirselves, don't advocate your friends!
at least each one has this capability which can be done on one'S own i think....

Alexandra Baltog, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

PRO !

Robert Riley, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

It seems that if you don't agree with Yasemin you are wrong! Well I don't agree with Yasemin also, and it has nothing at all to do with 'friends club' Many reasons have been put forward, it would be better if the comments were accepted and people left alone.

Contra.

Yasemin Carmen, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

:) ha ha ha
it seems that the crowd shot, the in vogue people of fc even know the dialogues between me and my friends better than me...

go on as u want
as i said before i m not as crowded as u
and i ll go on as i want too
and the community's words wont be that important as they were before as long as these unfair conditions are carried on.
and it seems that it will

have a nice voting

Cees Kuijs, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

In my opinion this is the place to judge the picture, not the comments. For that you can start a new thread in the members talk. In this way soon nobody will give their opinion about a picture, if they have to defend their view on it. Sorry for that.
For the picture, good idea, but too much disturbing.... Contra
Cees

Vesela M., 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Contra

Robert Riley, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Yasemin always likes to be pushing forward to try and be the leader, hence her attitude that she must respond quite vehemently to us who don't agree! Quite amazing really. I cannot remember ever when the proposer tried so much to influence the voting.

Perhaps a new thread that stops the proposer from commenting after the first comment. This is getting quite boring with her adolescent tantrums.

Dave Donaldson, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

contra

BRYAN CRUTE, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

I try to judge the work simply. would i hang it on my wall. Thats the true test of a gallery picture.
Right or wrong thats for others ?
I would not have this on my wall ....Contra

Frank Cecconi, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Pro ... that's all there is to say;-)

Andy Pomplun, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

I just hope you guys will stay objective.... skip

Ruud van der Lubben, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Some of the best photo critiques in the world dont know how to hold a camera. but they are able to very sharply pinpoint their critique on a picture.

Please discuss the picture and not the people who made the comment.

For the picture, i agree with those contra, due to the too large amount of blur in the first face.

Paul Grimshaw, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

I do find the blurred passer-by too dominant however I understand the intention. Contra for me. What I do find extremely distasteful is someone being unable to post their opinion, right or wrong, without being challenged. To call someone ignorant on the basis that they disagree with you and dare to post their opinion speaks volumes in itself. If this were my image and the proposer had acted like this under my image I would delete the image immediately.

Yasemin Carmen, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

keep ur precious ideas for urself Paul
you will need them in your other fightings

Laki K., 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

those who cant stand it, go there http://www.fotocommunity.com
and what will you read there? "upload and discuss your photos", i think some of you guys should keep that in mind. if someone discusses than whats wrong with it?

as for getting personal, well, i can understand yasemins intention very well, i doubt that she's willing to hurt anyones feelings here, but she expresses her opinion in a straight way, which is still ok. i have red much more harsher stuff over here, so people chill out.

@paul, as for "What I do find extremely distasteful is someone being unable to post their opinion, right or wrong, without being challenged." thats just ridiculous, cause what you're saying is that we have to take all comments as they are without discussing them. you might like to do that, but others have the guts to stand up for their opinions, might be be something you dont know or have.

@ruud, thats the typical killer argument in a discussion, i wonder when the next one will pop up with another great quote. when you talk about best photo critiques are you refering to those in here? if so, then i think your perception is gone bonkers.

before freaking out you should all read maguire's comment from the 18th at 23:02, he brings it down to the point.

When , 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Agree Laki, Eddie puts it perfectly. I was glad to see this in the voting. This photo comes from what I think is one of the most lyrical photographers on FC, his work comes first from emotion and heart. I love it because he doesn't work inside the box. There is mystery here, a poetry, not just a standard portrait.

Stu Good, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Disclaimer: I like the image, I think I understand what Ali is trying to acheive and the only blurred bits I see are obviously supposed to be blurred. Furthermore it does not hurt my eyes in the slightest to look at the photo.

However irrespective of any previous comments I'm afraid I vote Contra because for my taste the blurred face in the foreground covers a little too much of the face on which we are focussed.

Now go ahead and shoot me, I don't care as my real name is Clarke. ;o)

Véronique Soulier, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

wooow ! what a chat .. I vote pro or contra a pic because not all the pics of one person can touch me and my closer buddies are voting pro or contra mine as well, as long as I know why, I'm happy to be on FC because it's a challenge to capture and keep people attention .. What is disturbing me here ? not the eyes wonderful, not the blurred part echoing, emphasing veiled woman ( the idea of veiled) but it takes half of the pic.. half is too much, sorry contra and nothing against your choice Yasemin, nothing against the intention nicely illustrated by the title.. maybe just I'm living in Switzerland, you in Turkey where, I've been surprised to see so many young women wearing a veil, your sensibility and mine are somewhere different in front of that.. and our differences are a gift on FC !

Andy Pomplun, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

have looked at it for quite a while now, and yes, I think it was very well worth being proposed. The girl's look is fascinating and really gets me, the blurred boy is okay for me and the photo overall works really good for me, but there is one little thing that disturbs me, actually two things: First of all the boy's head melts into the background on the top left and it almost looks like there has been something done to it, but I could live with that, but what I really can't figure out is that the boy does have contoures almost everywhere even if blurred except for his nose or where his nose should be.... can't figure it out, its the only part where the girl's mouth almost shines through a bit and I somewhat don't get it....

still a skip, I'll come back ;)

Yasemin Carmen, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

@Andy, what u described very well above is just the "speed of movement"
the boy is not standing there, he is moving thats why u see double images at the same place
(u know if u wave ur hand very speedy u will both see ur hand and the background :) )
and since it is not a still life, it is so hard to catch such a glance from back when u have an active person or people between the focused person and u.

"angular velocity - right time of pressing the shutter"

Tom McAlexander , 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Just one more short comment: Through all of the words that are written, we must not lose sight of the fact that there is a picture to be judged and a name attributed to it. Ali is a gentleman from sole to crown, and although I stand by my contra vote, I would be delighted if at least 51 of you disagree with me and this picture finds its way into our hall of fame, the Gallery.

When , 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

I wonder Yasemin if your cultural upbringing and being a woman played a part in you feeling strongly about this image. I know as a woman it touches me in a way that men might not understand. As someone brought up in a democratic American Christian society where women are fairly free I look at this picture from an outsider's eyes with only translated knowledge of this girl's culture. To me it is a representation of a world where women are veiled and men take the forefront of society. i see a woman who is only half a human in the shadow of the male gender, without men she is not whole. I am sure a great deal of my perceptions from my culture and my culture's feminist battles for equality play into my views. A photographer brings to an image part of himself. I would love to know what Ali sees in this image and why you felt compelled to propose it.

One of the reasons I most enjoy FC is because it allows me to meet people with different cultural views and see the world vicariously through them.

Chris Contrast, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

+++

Abdul Khaliq, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

:)), I agree with Andy on upper part of the head.
Also agree with Yasemine for Nose issue.
I give Pro for the moment the photographer captured the girls look.

Manuel MM, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

I give pro for the moment and her look ............
PRO

Andy Pomplun, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Yasemin and Abdul, I sure know what movement can do, but here it is only the nose part where this effect occurs, and that's what I meant...

D. W., 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

a brilliant moment++++

Rob Mitchell, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Contra because it's not what I'd hang in a gallery. It's just not cutting it.
My free choice, my free vote.

Paul Grimshaw, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Beautiful .. also now, for MY opinion, I am told to "keep it to myself" and also by another it is suggested it may be a 'man' thing'.
"One of the reasons I most enjoy FC is because it allows me to meet people with different cultural views and see the world vicariously through them." - maybe these different views would be heard and accepted more if they weren't challenged so aggressively by the proposer. I am sure if I challenged comments on my images like this (which I never have), you would feel very different.
I have received many comments here, for both normal and Gallery proposal, on my own images and never felt the need or even the urge to tell someone to keep their comments to themselves or try to split opinion into some man/woman or indeed any other race or social camp ... I just accepted all comments good or bad .. Laki, of course it is acceptable to discuss comments but not in the challenging style seen here and the proposer's response clearly shows their acceptance of honest critique.

Jacqueline Chay, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Love the B&W tones, really excellent, I think that the blur is a bit too invasive and i do not think the title fits this pic. To me this lovely girl does not look like she is searching but looks rather annoyed at, either the photographer for taking her pic or at the boy for walking into the shot. I'd say the photographer as thats were her eye is focused. Good work though - C

When , 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Ah wait a minute. You need to back yourself up Paul and put your persecution issues in check. I wasn't addressing you in my comments.

You have seriously contorted quoting my statements and blended them into your discourse with Yasemin. For the record I stated MY perceptions from MY personal place in the world. It is very well scientific knowledge that men and woman have differnent brain chemistry and wiring, and women through a good part of history have not been equals to men. Cultures can have very different perceptions, and understanding that can help appreciate a photographer's work. I pondered what the photograph meant to the photographer and proposer hoping for more insight. That is all there was and nothing more. THERE WAS NO PAUL GRIMSHAW anywhere in there. As in the past, I have no desire to have any contact with you so kindly leave me out of your issues.

Kai Sehlke, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

+

Yasemin Carmen, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

as i see people tend to behave as if this picture could have been taken in to gallery if i had kept my silence like lambs..
paaah

r u triying to deceive a kid?

all, who have to shame on theirselves for turning the site into a pub -in which they please their friends- have created a new defense mechanism as i witness.

how many times do i have to tell you "it is not that important from now on" ?

Paul Grimshaw, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Sorry When, I have no persecution issues and I knew that your comments were not aimed at me so we have no problems here and like you I also have no wish to have any contact/conflict. Regards, Paul.

Luc Grollie, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

first it's a question of focus, than it's a matter of speedy movement....
fact is the boy's face is to much disturbing the main subject.Ali has some great portraits in his portfolio, but I don't see gallery in this one....
greetz,

Ali Erbas, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Dearest voters and commentators,

First of all, I thank you for all your comments though it is getting abit controversial.

Unfortunately, I was unable to read all the comments on a timely manner due to my long journey in South West Europe.

However, I have the urge to drop a few words to give justice to the photo and relay my intentions about the composition.

First glance of the photo will naturally be attracted to the girl as she is clear, especially her piercing and forceful eyes; but in fact, she is not intended to be the only centre of the attention. The blur and so called “distracting” boy is also part of the theme. Without him, she is not clear. Without her, he is not blurring. Both are intended to serve as a contrast to one another, and hence, the composition between the girl and the boy is in equal ratio as they should be viewed at par. After all, aren’t all things in this world matters of contrast? As in, a boy vs. a girl, clear vs. blur, veiled vs. unveiled, constrained vs. free, front vs. back, black vs. white... the funny thing is, things are not always as clear as they seem, and they aren’t always as simple... More often than not when we assume an answer to be so clear and simple; yet is that the case? ... Just like the photo, when you see the girl which has a perfect view, there is an obstacle “blur” ... the perfect is imperfect, it is not so clear...

Ironically, I picked this particular portrait of the girl among a dozen others where she was alone and “clear” and Yasemin proposed this same particular photo for the gallery.

I believe I know Yasemin and her work and I believe that she is one of the most creative photographers in our community. I also believe that she prefers to communicate with us through her work which has always impressed and inspired us. However, I can see that she has exhausted the beauty and peace of her inner world for the sake of the creativity of her art and I unfortunately have to admit that in this case, she has too little tolerance towards others’ subjective views. I may disagree with her way of stating comments but as we know, a true artist suffers from his or her own caprice and arrogance, and so a barrier for those who come across them.

I need to highlight this principle which has guided me through my photography experience over the years: I intend to share my photos with other enthusiasts around the world, and to seize all intimate moments of the children of a lesser god, the darker side of the moon, the unblessed edges of the lord... in other words, I do not expect them to be browsed by others in galleries nor hanging in the bed room walls or to be voted as PRO... and I certainly do not think I should withdraw this proposal as suggested by one of you, simply because of these controversial discussions of which I do have respect of.

I, of course, welcome all comments or critics with open arms, but I do not take any of them as endorsements of my work.

Last but not least, I would like to refer to a proverb from my country which states, “A word is in prison of yours until you say it; and you are imprisoned by the word after you have said it”. May be we should frame our critics according to this proverb and think twice or even sleep over it before we say words that might insult or hurt others even if we do not intend to do so.

And with your permission, I will continue my long journey now...

Ruud van der Lubben, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Very well said Ali,
Wishing a good and safe journey !!

Massimo Carolla, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

I have thinking a lot on this photo, at first I was against becouse seemed too much blur, but watching with attention and calm this image has a great poetry and a force, will can appeals to or not but I ask anyone to remember one photo equally strongly voted for the gallery. This image with the exception of many others will be remembered to along that it goes in gallery or not , Pro

Yasemin Carmen, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Art is for Art's sake.
Not for people's sake.

And art is not created to enable people have different choices of deciding which to hang on his wall of bedroom.
I don't prefer discussing it here any more.
Please.

Have a nice voting.

Andy Pomplun, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Thank you Ali, and I'm glad you let it stay here....
Andy

Mikael Hörnlund, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Interesting discussion, very interesting..
For me this picture is all about Yin&Yang, Or you can call what you like, contrast, female/male energy, plus/minus, b&w.. you have all the ingredients in the picture and we see it everywhere, even in this very interesting discussion. Imho, the picture has a meaning, a philosophy, and therefore I vote pro.

Paul Grimshaw, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Well put Ali, Much respect. Regards, Paul.

Aike Voelker, 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

Interesting shot !
*PRO*

C. Knospe , 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

+

ivano cheli (2) , 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

pro

neurosynthetic , 27.04.2007 at 6:43h

pro

Evelyn Rees , 15.08.2008 at 1:15h

Cool picture...........
It´s tol late now, but would hacve voted PRO.

Evelyn

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